«Dr Ulsrud: So Alright guys today on the Rulebreakers podcast, I have an awesome guest, Dr. Josh Wagner today. Dr Wagner: Hey Jason, good to be here ...»
Chiropractic Rule Breakers Podcast
w/ Host Dr Jason Ulsrud
Guest Dr Josh Wagner
Dr Ulsrud: So Alright guys today on the Rulebreakers podcast, I have an awesome guest, Dr. Josh
Dr Wagner: Hey Jason, good to be here with you.
Dr Ulsrud: I’m really happy that we have connected. Actually I have been looking forward to this
interview for quite some time because we set this up a number of weeks ago. I connected with your
program that you have regarding new patients, keeping patients, so that we don’t have to always getting in new patients and all that kind of stuff and I loved the program. I just kind of want to put that out there as a little teaser to what’s the conversation that we are going to have, because I think this is going to be enormous and big. However, to get it started for our listeners if they don’t know who you are, if you don’t mind, who you are, give us a cliff’s notes of who Dr. Josh Wagner is and why we should even be listening to you?
Dr Wagner: Sure, I’ll start off. In the beginning of the cliff note, I got into chiropractic from undergrad while at NYU and I got in deep, I mean I was telling Jason, we spoke few weeks ago, that I would fall sleep so many nights listening to the greats Sigafoose, Reggie Gold, Dick Santos and all the great chiropractors, stage speakers and, I just loved and still do, loved pure chiropractic. I had some great mentors practicing and I would visit as many chiropractors as I could throughout the country.
I have slept at Reggie Gold’s house years ago in grad school and just on fire and I still am.
But I started to notice some trends in the field that would get started on stages, and what gets told on the stage isn’t always the same as what happens in practice, and then I realized that in six – seven years of getting used to chiropractic when I was really coming down to finishing grad school and spending more time in actual practices. Practices I used to be really enthusiastic about, but seeing that patients were not getting it as much as I thought they were, or staying with care and understanding.
A lot of successful practitioners, and success is very subjective depending on what that means to you, are just really burned out in practice and that’s different for everyone and that may be spending most of your weekends doing screenings, doing a hour long of reported finding, not that either or those is good or bad. But if it does not work for your practice, it doesn’t work for you. I saw Chiropractors see lots of people making a big difference, but not making nearly the income I think they should deserve based on quality they are bringing to the community and the people they are seeing. So, I got really got dismayed right around when I got graduated Life. When I was licensed, I literally thought I was going to practice in Charleston, South Carolina, but realized that community was not a fit for me. There’s nothing wrong with there, but practicing there just wasn’t a fit for me. And I came back to the North after I went to Life University with my taail between my legs and literally just worked around my mom’s house for two months not knowing what to do because I had spent so much time on focusing on a single type of practice I was going to create and that didn’t work and I was shit out of luck. I had no plan. I was a mess and I’ll save a story to tell at the end about that. And right now, I practice in Manhattan, NY. I have a much different practice than I ever thought I would. And it’s what works for me. And it is not like what I think everyone should practice like either. My goal is that chiropractors practice in a way that works for them…that’s beneficial for people they’re seeing and the profession and the general public because how we are doing it right now is not working.
You know, if you look just at the stats of the amount of people who have active chiropractic appointments, the amount of people if you survey 20 people on the street what the typical response would be, it would be all over the place. A lot more than negative than we should be having, or if you look at lot other practices one of chiropractic practices that are preaching are philosophically-based and there’s nothing wrong with that and or preaching life time care, life-time wellness, all which I endorse.
But if you are look at the majority of the practices that are preaching that, very few percentages are actually creating it and making it happen or at least for the reasons they think they are or without dramatic amount of work and the stress and constantly needing tons of new patients, because what would you be doing works when people come back to you on some type of almost paradigm after a bunch of years of practice, you don’t need more than a handful of new patients a month.
So when you really start to look at and crunch the numbers, there is a huge disconnect there.
What I am sharing is for practitioners no matter whether they are therapeutic-based, 100 percent straight chiropractic, it doesn’t matter. It is helping you create a practice that works with far less stress, not having to work on the weekends and get paid what you’re worth.
Dr Ulsrud: Cool, so you think you have the, maybe for a lack in better words, the new patient solution for chiropractors and more importantly I think the retention solution for chiropractors.
Dr Wagner: Sure, so I am going to share these solutions, but again this is a program full of lots of strategies and insights that for the most part aren’t being introduced in the profession and are super simple to get from the ease of your computer with online modules and videos. That It is not just a new patient generator. It is showing you how to more strategically target new patients that are right for your practice, and it’s called the perfect patient funnel system. How to create a perfect patient funnel system for you. Perfect patients are walking around, how to create that from a different paradigm. We just assuming these people coming back to you for the rest of your life and sharing that with other people enthusiastically and paying you.
Dr Ulsrud: Well, listen, Josh, I think you are way too humble, I do think this is a fantastic solution that for most of problems that chiropractors have and like with any system it only works good as you work the program. And so we are going to get into that program and kind of crack some nits here and what we get out of that. But first have one huge question to ask, it is the biggest question we have on the show, and that is are you ready to break some freakin rules.
Dr Wagner: Yes, let’s get to it.
Dr Ulsrud: Absolutely, today we are going to do a serious rule breaking and I have a feeling that we are going to ruffle some feathers. But when we get into this topic and start talking about how to represent chiropractic and how to communicate chiropractic to people and to our public, it tends to get people a little tweaked around the edges, so if that happens today I think that’s a good thing.
At least people are thinking and that’s primarily what we want them to do. And this program is awesome. So to get started here, I have checked out the program and went through every single video that you had on there and some of the videos are quite long 30- 40 mins, 45 mins went through them and some of them I went through twice. I didn’t say that to the other day we talked but went through them twice I took notes on every video that we went through, went through all references you gave in the videos. S o I did my due diligence on this program, as far what you had to offer, and I did that because I didn’t want to bring this this to my viewers or my listeners if it wasn’t worthy of the rock star brand. This is why sitting here today and we are talking.
Good job, I look forward to hearing to what you have to say about it. One of the most important modules that I went through is the first one and it really did talk about paradigm shift kind of in the chiropractic and one of the things that I had seen or had a problem in chiropractic I’ve experienced myself in chiropractic so what I want to refrain I am not saying that these are problems that these have other chiropractic having I haven’t because I have had the problems we are talking about today. I mean not be experiencing today but I have had this experience at some level at some point at my chiropractic career. And that is the communicating of chiropractic and most of the them, when people come in we tend to want to shove off chiropractic down their throats, I know it is not shoving them down their throats but we want to educate them and we want them to become warriors and all these acronyms that we can give them and I think that’s wrong. So, that’s a good place to start, let’s start there and let me know what you think about that.
Dr Wagner: Okay, and Jason what you said about the program I listened to one your professional podcast few weeks ago and I was also shocked to see how aligned you were and our mentality and what could be benefit to the profession. And I completely understand you are doing your due diligence going through all of my stuff and I appreciate it. Right now, I am not just going to share my mentality or philosophy but really give me such as value I can when you are actually listening you can actually implement some of this tomorrow in your practice and I’m probably going to go on to many things unless Jason stops me, because it is his show and his time. So more of what Jason just said communicative chiropractic here is the first thing that is going to ruffle some feathers. Communication is the idea whether it is chiropractic or buying this new car, there is a message and a messenger and both of them have to work. Selling ice cubes to Eskimos: that message does not work. Now the straight, lifetime wellness care from day 1 for new patients does not work and that’s not my opinion. It is by looking at statistics like I demonstrated with all other practices. And in most of practice management stuff, promoting that level of education from day one to day three to everything else they do. If that actually worked on most practices, a few years later they would not need more new patients than a handful. But you know they need 40 to 50 to 60 new patients it is a never ending story and there is nothing wrong with the way educating but if you really want to create a practice that works, it does not.
Dr Ulsrud: Struggling Chiropractors?
Dr Wagner: Yeah, or you know, since that is based on your success, but see you are not catering to the chiropractor as your patient, you are catering to people with a 100% different mentality than you so that message works to share with a chiropractor, it doesn’t work for the lay person. That doesn’t mean that the message is wrong either. It’s just the wrong audience and timing.
Dr Ulsrud: Well, It really comes down to what you are saying or what I am gathering that you are saying, is the only people who really care about that straight chiropractic hardcore chiropractic are not so much that patients that the chiropractors are serving. Is that kind of an accurate scenario?
Dr Wagner: Absolutely, and usually the first may be an objection from chiropractors who say, ”Well what about this chiropractor, him or her who is promoting absolute chiropractic and the patients get it.
Okay here is the difference: That may be happening in their practice but it is because of them as the messenger, it is their level or confidence and whether they were selling insurance or car, they will have a big business.
Dr Ulsrud: So when you also look at these people, they have a system. I think that’s why your program is so valuable of a program, because of the systems, that chiros can use regardless of straight principle chiropractic mix-up defluxion, whatever it is.
Dr Wagner: Exactly, and so you can change the messenger (the chiropractor) which is why my program is about better improving communication of what people want from you to follow you. And you’ve got to be preaching the right message and showing the straight wellness from day 1 is not my opinion, just from looking at statistics it’s not working. You may have seen of lot of people using forcing and you constantly need new patients whatever it may be: lots of money on marketing, and more likely less referrals and hardly any reactivations which is the life blood of an amazing thriving sustainable practice.
When your new patients are people who have been under care coming back to you, they know your message, care, fees and referrals, that’s a practice that works.
Dr Ulsrud: Well just as they were talking about also, is these are also Chiropractors who are saying to raise your fees and again I say that what I had have done in past simply does not work.
Dr Wagner: I am also not like a lot of consultants out there to just raise their fees to establish more credibility and authority. Your fee intimate and a personal affair and if you are charging more than your services worth, that’s going to backfire against you too. So it’s about how to find what your perfect fee is for you, right now. And that’s another reason why this program is different is because I know so many great chiros who deliver a great service and aren’t congruent with their fees. They’ve been told to be something they’re not, or try to mimic s someone else because that works for another person. And the second you are incongruent with how you want to take care of people it will backfire in the long run.
Dr Ulsrud: Well the big question is this, are a lot of Chiropractors going to have a difficult time with how to determine what is right for themselves and then how to make that congruent through entire practice Dr Wagner: Well, that’s a great questions and that’s what people going through the program are confronted with. Can you be honest with yourself and not just practice in a way that works for someone else Dr Ulsrud: Well maybe it is also with numbers. We see Chiropractors who are struggling, a lot of Chiropractors and I would guess, you know the numbers better than I and I would guess more are struggling than are successful Chiropractors and that then we look at the market share we have and clearly we have the not even adequate amount of people coming into our practices. So I think we can be honest with those facts and figures, we can start to be a little more honest on what we want.