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«FINANCE AND SERVICES COMMITTEE Minutes of a meeting of the Finance and Services Committee held in the Council Chamber, Ruataniwha Street, Waipawa on ...»

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Minutes of a meeting of the Finance and Services Committee held in the Council Chamber,

Ruataniwha Street, Waipawa on Thursday, 22 January 2015 commencing at 9.00am (900 hours).

PRESENT: Councillor I G S Sharp [Chairman]

Councillors K R Annand, S Butler, T K Kingston, M R Manning, T G Story, A J F Watts, M A Williams and His Worship the Mayor P G Butler (ex officio) IN ATTENDANCE: J B Freeman [Chief Executive] P S McKinley [Land Transport Manager] S J Thrush [Technical Services Manager] B Allan [Chief Financial Officer] B M Smith [Chief Financial Officer] B E Way [Utilities Manager] D C Moorcock [Corporate Administrator] N E Mckay [Executive Assistant] M Black [Maori Consultative Committee Representative]



No conflicts of interest were reported for minuting



THAT the minutes of the Finance and Services Committee meeting held on 2 October 2014, as circulated, be confirmed as a true and correct record.

Crs S Butler / Kingston



Council is required to make decisions in accordance with the requirements of Part 6 Subpart 1 of the Local Government Act 2002.


THAT the Committee has read the reports associated with items 5.0, 6.0 and 7.0 considers in its discretion under Section 79(1)(a) that sufficient consultation has taken place in addition to the Councillors knowledge of the items to meet the requirements of Section 82(3) in such a manner that it is appropriate for decisions to be made during the course of this meeting.

His Worship the Mayor Butler / Cr S Butler


5.0 STANDPIPE WATER COSTS Brett Way spoke to the report Brett Way - whether the Council water supply is used for supplying rural drinking water or used for roading construction we charge the water takers for that water. Otane Fire Brigade supply water to rural residents of Central Hawke’s Bay. Examples of what we charge are in the report.

Cr Manning - asked for clarification on the Stand Pipe.

Brett Way - the tankers that fill up water for human consumption, potable water, must have their tanker registered and sterilised, the non-potable tanker takes water for dust suppression/road construction etc. The same standpipe is used and works on an honesty system.

Cr Sharp - costs to the Council is the same no matter what the water is used for.

–  –  –

Cr Manning - does that mean there is a non-return valve to avoid feedback?

Brett Way - yes, the non-return valve is checked regularly so there is a minimal chance of compromising the drinking supply.

Cr Williams - If there is going to be an extra cost to come from general rates, shouldn’t it be user pays and any shortfall should come from the people who the water is supplied.

Cr Sharp - a lot of people connected to town supply are charged $2 per cubic meter for 300 cubic meters and don’t use their allocated amount so in fact pay $6 per cubic meter.

Cr Williams - appreciates that point but it shouldn’t be a charge to the general rate.

Cr Sharp - what would the average household use per year?

Brett Way - approximately 200 cubic meters.

Cr S Butler - this is a valid point, connected people aren’t using their allocated amount, and it should be user pays, the people taking water from the standpipe should pay.

Mayor Butler - it’s a shortfall we are talking about not a charge, not what it costs.

–  –  –

John Freeman - could we please have the name of that person so we can put a meter on their property?

Cr Kingston - Yes. Council has a responsibility to supply water to the community and residents of CHB. The rural people, do we charge them the fee or does Otane Fire Brigade?

Cr Sharp - the key issue is not where the water ends up. The supermarkets don’t change their price because of the destination of the product.

Cr Watts - agrees with the Deputy Mayor, this should be simple, one price for everybody, $2.00 per cubic meter.

Cr S Butler - agrees with simplicity, one price for town and then another for people who want to take water through the stand pipe one rate to fill up containers/tankers.

Brett Way - Council don’t use the Otane Fire brigade as they are too expensive, we get someone from Hastings to cart water, Otane Fire Brigade double the price of the water. The issue is they aren’t selling it at $7 per cube but $16 per cube, they are entitled to make a profit as they are a commercial business.

Mayor Butler - Otane Fire Brigade has received money for their tanker from the Council and wonders whether if there is a two way argument here as Otane are out delivering water as a business and Tikokino’s is sitting in shed available for firefighting.

Cr Sharp - we aren’t here to discuss someone’s business operation.

Mayor Butler - is the tanker available to fight fires? There is more to this one.

Cr S Butler - valid point made by Mayor Butler. Otane are asking for special rate because they are a fire brigade but want it for a commercial operation and this is how this topic has arisen.

Cr Story - regarding the email to Councillors from Mayor Butler regarding pricing, wondered what other Councillors responded?

Cr Sharp - responded one rate for everyone. Be mindful of staff and their recommendations of where the price sits, everyone pays the $7 at the moment, any decision we make will not just affect Otane Fire Brigade but other operations.

Cr Kingston - Option 3 is the option I am looking at. I believe it should apply to anybody supplying water for household needs, which is more important than commercial reasons.

Doesn’t feel there is a satisfactory option here.

Cr Sharp - read option 1.

Cr Kingston - I will consider that.

Cr Williams - likes option 2, the staff recommended option.

Brett Way - the fees and charges are in the LTP/Annual Plan, Council has approved the budget which includes maintenance and staff costs.

Cr Annand - concerned that Otane Fire Brigade are selling water for profit.

–  –  –

Cr Williams - Mr Chairman I will move option 2.

Cr S Butler - Seconded option 2.

Cr Sharp – called for any discussion on option 2. Status Quo.

Brett Way - Council does have the ability to change fees and charges in the LTP.

Cr Watts - how quickly can changes be made?

John Freeman - if it’s part of LTP process then that comes in 1 July 2015.

Cr Watts - if we were to cover the $10,000 shortfall by reducing the cost of water per cube, how much do rates go up?

John Freeman - who do you charge? Ratepayers or users? Rural or Urban?

Cr Sharp - town people cannot sell their water.

Cr S Butler - reminds Councillors it’s all very good to be nice to one ratepayer but this creates inequities and someone else has to pays.

Mayor Butler - I believe it should be user pays.

Cr Watts - how many connections do we have on town supply?

Harry Robinson - approximately 4,000.

Mayor Butler - subsidising is not on.

Cr Manning - should option 2 fail, it is my intention to move option 3.

Mr McKinley - It’s a benefit to roading to have a cheaper rate as it would aid in building roads.

Cr Kingston - spoke against option 2, believes there should be a reduced rate for people supplying water to households for domestic use, and strongly opposes this option.

Cr Sharp – would you expect Cr Kingston that the lower rate to be passed onto the end user?

Cr Kingston - Yes and this will need to be investigated.

Morry Black - I concur with the Chief Executive regarding process, the fees and charges have been approved by this Council, to change this through this meeting might be against the law.

Cr Sharp - asked for any further discussion.

–  –  –

Cr Manning - would like more time and moves that this matter lies on the table.

Cr Kingston - agrees with the time factor, we are not making a decision today we are making a decision on what goes to Council, if we move one of the motions today we have three weeks to get more information.

Cr Manning: moved option 3 to serve the purpose of discussion to be carried forward to the Council Meeting with taking out “Otane” and use the words fire brigade.

Mayor Butler - seconded option 3.

Cr S Butler - how as a Council can we defend ourselves if we give some people a subsidy and not others? I don’t think we should be subsidising for a commercial business.

Cr Sharp – Otane Fire Brigade makes donations to other organisations in Central Hawkes Bay.

Cr Watts - personally wants option 1.

Cr Sharp – explained option 1 again.

John Freeman - taking Otane out is fictitious, Otane is the only Fire Brigade certified to deliver potable water.

Cr Kingston - Thank you Mr Chairman, if option 3 is defeated he will move option 1.

Cr Sharp - any further discussion.

–  –  –

Cr Kingston - moved option 1 Cr Watts – Seconded.

Cr Sharp – asked for any discussion. Explained option 1.

Cr S Butler - how are we going to know if they are taking for potable or non-potable?

Brett Way - it is an honesty system and the customers are honest that we deal with.

Cr Sharp – asked for any further discussion. Put Option 1

–  –  –

THAT there are two water stand pipe rates, one for potable water carriers and one for non potable water users, in recognition that the water is for human consumption and there is a community benefit from supplying houses without a Council network connection.

–  –  –

That it meets the purpose of local government as stated below:

The Council is required to give effect to the purpose of local government as prescribed by Section 10 of the Local Government Act 2002. That purpose is to meet the current and future needs of communities for good quality local infrastructure, local public services, and performance of regulatory functions in a way that is most cost-effective for households and businesses. Good quality means infrastructure, services and performance that are efficient and effective and appropriate to present and anticipated future circumstances.

–  –  –

6.0 RUSSELL PARK PATHWAY Brett Way spoke to the report Part of the Russell Park upgrade was a concrete pathway for access to the esplanade reserve and the fitness trail.

Cr Sharp - there is a possibility that the multi sport turf will be shifting 20 metres, which will save the turf project approximately 1 million dollars.

Mayor Butler - asked if the $60,000 is for the full pathway?

Brett Way - the path is all the way around.

Cr Sharp – The reason it’s a concrete path is for ease of use, walkers/joggers, mobility scooters, skateboards etc.

Mayor Butler - how wide is it?

Brett Way - 1.5m, slightly wider than a footpath.

Cr Sharp – explained Option 1 and called for any discussion.

Cr Annand – a good idea from the young people we have been working with regarding fundraising to put some skate park elements around the park, buying us more time for the skate park.

Cr Kingston - completely agrees with the expenditure on this project, cautioned difficulty of use for wheelchairs and needs to be accessible.

–  –  –

That it meets the purpose of local government as stated below:

The Council is required to give effect to the purpose of local government as prescribed by Section 10 of the Local Government Act 2002. That purpose is to meet the current and future needs of communities for good quality local infrastructure, local public services, and performance of regulatory functions in a way that is most cost-effective for households and businesses. Good quality means infrastructure, services and performance that are efficient and effective and appropriate to present and anticipated future circumstances.

–  –  –


Shawn McKinley spoke to the report Cr S Butler - the Art Gallery are concerned about people pulling in, would construction of a turning bay or some modification to the road area help?

Shawn McKinley - Yes that would help for people coming from the north heading south, you would also have the problem of people picking up speed if they are going north, getting NZTA to commit to a turning bay would probably be difficult its not in their budget. However NZTA are looking into calming devices and structures to get people to slow down.

Mayor Butler – the distance is 100 to120 metres, wouldn’t it be easier to ask NZTA to move the sign 120 metres?

Shawn McKinley - by law NZTA have to follow the steps.

Cr Sharp – called for any discussion.

Cr Annand - in our letter can we ask for calming structures to be looked at?

Shawn McKinley – yes.

–  –  –

THAT Council send a letter to New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) requesting the speed limit review on State Highway 2 north of Waipawa in the area of the Artmosphere Gallery.

–  –  –

That it meets the purpose of local government as stated below:

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